groups, no join or follow, but nonmembers can comment?

i dont remember the groups working like this, but they havent been that active lately so hadnt noticed
i see no join buttons on groups
no follow buttons, and even though your not a member, you can comment on the comment walls
the few newer groups since switching to jr have only the group creatiors as members

note i do use code to hide the profile header could that be why
can the join/follow functions be put outside the profile header
and, why can non members comment ina group


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soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities
updated by @soaringeagle: 09/06/15 01:15:21AM

I'm seeing a similar problem. But I DO see the "Join Group" and "Leave Group" buttons.
I'm seeing that a regular member can go to a group's page and post comments on the group Comment Wall- they should not be able to do this. They are not able to add a group discussion however.

HOWEVER there is something worse going on-
It seems that when i'm logged in as a regular member, and i apply for membership to a PRIVATE(!) group that allows new applicants, once I go through the applying process, I then go back to that group page and i can already SEE the whole group, read the comments and discussions, and I can even ADD A DISCUSSION in the private group...all while I'm still PENDING and not even approved as a member yet! This is NOT good. ! A member should not be able to enter, or see ANYTHING, or post in, a Private group until their membership has been APPROVED. See screenshot.


--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 07/23/15 08:01:23PM

Another test-
As a regular member, I applied to join a Private Group. The message even says: "You cannot view this Group unless you are a member- would you like to apply?" So I applied to join the private group and once my membership was PENDING, I could just go right into the group and see and read everything and see all the members and leave comments on the comment wall and start a new discussions and also post to other people's discussions. I shouldnt be able to do ANY of that as a pending member. I should not be seeing ANYTHING in that Private group while I'm 'pending'. Yikes!

So I post a new post in one of the private group's discussions, and then logged out of the site. I logged back in as Admin/me, and i rcieved the emailed application for that member to join that private group. I did NOT approve it, I deleted/rejected their application. Then I went to the group and the post by the Pending member remains there in the discussion.
This will cause some major breaches of privacy, not to mention embarrassments. =8-0

Thank goodness my Private group for my Site Admins and Moderators is CLOSED to applicants! All kinds of juicy reading there about problem members. But yesterday I added three moderators and i had to leave that group OPEN for applicants overnight so the three new mods could join that Private group. I figured no one could see anyone until they were approved as members. Wrong. !!
Knowing what I know now...ANYONE could have applied while I was asleep and seen, read, and copied everything there and spread it around if they chose- we joke around a lot as moderators to relieve the stress, and we talk about various things troublesome members do...that would have been absolutely mortifying and would have made us look terrible.

For ALL groups- a member should NOT be able to post on the comment wall or post in a discussion or create a discussion in any group they are not an actual member of. AND...if it's a Private Group, they should not be able to see a THING in it until their membership has been APPROVED and is no longer pending.




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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 07/23/15 08:05:50PM

can you screenshot where you see the join/leave cause i dont see it at all


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soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

wait i do see join but not when on adminaccount, only member
unless its a ff vs chrome issue
cause iwas trying to upload a large vid and couldnt in ff but could in chrome
so i wonder if its a script thats not working in ff


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soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

yea its only admins that have no join wich is replaced by the admin icons, but there still should be a join


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soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

Maybe because we are admins we are automatically "in" any group we want and can post in it.
I personally don't have an issue with that, but I agree it may feel a bit illogical.

But the other privacy issues described above are critical.


--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

well still you should be able to be a member and seen as a member of groups that interest you
it might just be a matter of asthetics, fitting the buttons along side the admin action icons
..or for that matter they might all be in the same continibng div with a set width so u cant see it, i dunno didnt examine the code, just noticed no way to join groups and thought that was odd

ps strum are u still on creators i was booted for no real reason, has there beenany updates at all..anything being done, and ...if i do a demo of the new improved sitebuilder would u post it


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soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

Strumelia is right, since you are the admin, you will not see a join button because you will automatically be a part of every group.


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Douglas Hackney
Jamroom Team - Designer/Developer/Support
FAQ-Docs-Help Videos

you dont show up as a member of that group
i think theres a distinction between member of group, and admin of the site
yes a site admin should be able to see whats in private gro0ups so theres no hankypanky going on
but on ning as an example even though you were admin, you couold see but not post in a group unless you joined that group...

if your to be a member by default then yiu should be in the members list by default
but i prefer that even admins have to join in order to post and be a member (but admins can see everything even in private groups)


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soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

OK, so just now i got a notification that a member had applied to join one of my PRIVATE Groups. AT THE SAME TIME, I got a notification that this same member had now ALREADY MADE A POST in one of the discussions in that PRIVATE Group. Before she was even approved to join the group.

This is nuts! She shouldn't have even been able to SEE anything in that group at all until I approved her, much less see everything and post in the group just because she had applied to join it. How is that 'private'?

This just REEEEEALLLYY needs to be changed. =8-0


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

Can you please test this on your site and see if you can replicate it?


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Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Brian are you talking to Soaring or me?

I've already tested it and I've seen it happening with members three times now- see my other posts in this thread. Thanks


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

I know you've seen it happen, but can you reproduce it and let us know how it is done?


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Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Yes, I did reproduce it, twice, while logged in as a regular member, and I've described all the steps I did, in proper order- in my first two posts in this thread, including the screenshot.




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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 07/28/15 11:18:31AM

Thanks - I'm not sure how I overlooked that. I will get a ticket open on this so we can check it out.


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Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Too many people, too many issues.
I'm fielding issues left and right from my site members too..and half of them are simply because they don't understand something basic. I know how you must feel...when non-coders like me dont understand basic stuff either.

Thank you for opening a ticket on this very VERY important PRIVACY VIOLATION issue on our sites- especially concerning the issue as it occurs with private Groups. It's going to cause some MAJOR breaches for people eventually unless fixed!


However, I also agree with Soaring Eagle in his TWO points as well about this overall group-related problem...

1) that site members should NOT be able to post comments or participate in disussions in a Group without first JOINING that group. Otherwise there is NO incentive at all to join groups, and no feeling of being 'a member of a group'!
2) Although admins need to be able to edit in and see group content, we admins should be able to officially JOIN or not join any group, just like regular members. And be seen as members if we join, and not be listed among the members if we don't join.
As it is now, I am shown as a member in all the groups I either created or joined while my site was on ning...but now if for example a member or one of my moderators creates a new group, I cannoty show support by 'joining' it and no one will ever see my avatar among the Group Members. That's sad! A social pariah in my own social network... lol.


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

What's the point of having a "public" group then? Is it just so they can "apply" easier?


I think the important thing here to understand is that you should have TWO accounts - one is your "admin account" (or master) that you do SITE WORK on - the other is your "user" account that you use like a regular "user" account on your site.

As an admin you have free reign over a lot of areas, and we're not likely to change how that works - otherwise we'd have to redo how admin accounts are treated throughout JR.

Let me know if that helps.


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Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

The Group and GroupDiscuss modules have been updated to fix this up.


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Paul Asher - JR Developer and System Import Specialist

Paul- do you mean the issue as it pertains to pending applicants seeing and having access to PRIVATE Groups while they are still pending, OR do you mean members being able to post in groups they have not joined? Or both? Thanks for clarifying.

THANK you for doing this! I will check it out!


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

Paul, I applied the updates. It's a mixed bag.

First, when logged in as a regular member:

1) Now after the updates it's true that I cannot post to a normal group's DISCUSSIONS...but I can still post on the Group's Comment Wall...I should not be able to do that- it encourages non-group members to simply start 'discussions' on the comment wall instead of joining the group.

2) IMHO the biggest problem is still there as bad as ever- as a regular member, after i merely APPLY to join a PRIVATE group and am still PENDING (not approved) I can then go back again to the group's page and suddenly I can see everything in the group, read everything, and post on the comment wall and post in the discussions, even add a discussion....all in the PRIVATE Group without having been approved as a member yet.
Funny thing is now after your updates as a non group member I cannot now post in a regular group's discussion threads...but i CAN do so in a Private Group that I dont even belong to yet. !!

Private Groups have GOT to be PRIVATE with totally invisible content to outsiders until they are approved and allowed in as a member.

Thanks so much!


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

I'm not seeing that on my test site - in fact I specifically added code to the module to fix this. Try clearing your caches?


I have this fixed (hopefully!!). Get the latest version (1.3.4) from the marketplace.


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Paul Asher - JR Developer and System Import Specialist

Update- just tested this all again-

Paul, you have FIXED the part where someone could apply to a private group and see the group's content and post to it while they were still 'pending'- YAY! Now they cannot see ANYTHING in the private group until they are approved as members.

HOWEVER-
the other part is still half not working right-
1) Now after the updates it's true that I cannot post to a normal group's DISCUSSIONS...but I can still post on the Group's Comment Wall...I should not be able to do that- it encourages non-group members to simply start 'discussions' on the comment wall instead of joining the group.

I cleared cache, everything. Two days later now- I log in as a regular member, I go to look at a normal Group (not private) and I can see/read both the group Discussions and the Group's Comment Wall entries...all fine so far. I cannot post to the group's discussion threads (good!) BUT...I CAN post comments in the Group's Comment Wall. I should not be able to do that unless I join the group. i just did it. Then I logged back in as admin and the comment was still there...and I deleted it.

Do you want to log into my site to see this? I can email you some regular member credentials. Thanks.



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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 08/01/15 04:53:53PM

Attn Paul- see previous post- the second thing is still not functioning for me the way you are experiencing... a non member of a group is still able to post comments on the group's comment wall. Thanks


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

I'm not seeing this on my development site. Can I try it on your site?


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Paul Asher - JR Developer and System Import Specialist

You had a jrGroup_item_detail.tpl overide template in your skin so the changes I made to the module template to fix this were not being effected.
I've fixed this up in your skin template. See how it looks now.


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Paul Asher - JR Developer and System Import Specialist

Ok, looking good!
This thread has been a bit complex, addressing a few aspects of closely related issues.

Recap:
1) the privacy problem with people being able to see everything and post in PRIVATE group just by applying to join them- and while their membership is still PENDING. This has been FIXED (yay!!!)
1) the problem with regular members being able to post discussions and comments in Groups (participate in every way) without having to join the group first...this too has been FIXED. Thanks!

(NOTE: STOP reading now if this subject is starting to bore you.)

Part of the original questions raised by Soaring Eagle was that as Admins we were able to see and post in every group automatically (in other words automatically 'joined' the group already), but are not 'seen' by everyone else in the member list of that group.
I see the pros and cons of that arrangement. Soaring would like us Admins to be able to SEE everything in all groups, but not be able to post in them without 'joining' them. I can imagine that would take some in depth coding and not sure it's worth the huge effort.
My moderators have expressed that on Ning they were TIRED of having to join a group just to edit somebody's post quickly, and then un-join that group again...so I think I have come around to that viewpoint as well based on their complaints. Plus, it might look kinda weird for me and my 6 other moderators to all be listed as a new group's members right off the bat...like, huh?
I do notice that when I CREATE a new group, I am shown in the member list of the new group, even though I'm an Admin...so that good! Personally, I think I'm now ok with this current arrangement.

Brian said: "I think the important thing here to understand is that you should have TWO accounts - one is your "admin account" (or master) that you do SITE WORK on - the other is your "user" account that you use like a regular "user" account on your site."

Unfortunately this never even occurred to me when coming from Ning to Jamroom. And it's a bit late in the day now for me to attempt to 'split myself'...might cause some site issues in content I 'own', plus the hassle of logging in and out all the time as the Site owner everyone on my site 'knows' but without admin privileges...and a new shadowy Admin entity. Could be problematic at this point, so I probably will stick with just keeping a couple of test members and a 'test admin' and 'test moderator' profile as well.

This is Soaring's thread, so he can add whatever he wants and marked it unsolved/solved/whatever. But speaking only for me, the important issues it raised are ok now.


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

Thanks for the update - glad to see things are working for the most part now. I know it's hard to use a second account once you're "known" under your first, but hopefully the setup works well enough that it won't be an issue.


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Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net