solved My Developer Tools skin cloner is not working right

I'm starting a new thread on this since the other thread is getting too ...involved.

I just reloaded the 1.3.0 Dev Tools module successfully, as instructed. Then I cloned a new skin off of my nice customized Ningja skin and gave it a new name, with "Lisa1" in the title.
Activated the cloned skin and I get... see screenshot I've attached.
I went back to my customized Ningja skin and all was well again, cleared cahches, integ check etc then activated the new cloned skin and again the same result. I've left the new cloned skin there in case you need to examine it.

@JR Team- help please?


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 07/09/16 09:21:02AM

Your just missing the style sheet.

After trying the "Somethings wrong, what do I do" instructions here:
https://www.jamroom.net/the-jamroom-network/documentation/problems/114/somethings-wrong-what-do-i-do

(to clear the cache and run the integrity check)

See if that fixes it. If it doesn't we can continue.

Also please tell me the names of the skins in the system and the names you cloned it to. Exactly please, I suspect capitalization could be an issue.
updated by @michael: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

I will do the cache/integrity a third time. Be right back.


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

Id be interested in knowing the exact names of your skins including capitalization.
updated by @michael: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

Ok Michael-
I did all those things a third time....caches, integ check, no red lights in System check. Then I deleted the troublesome cloned skin and made a new clone, did all those things again, same result. My cloned skins are not functioning.
That said, before I re-loaded the Developer Tool module as you told me to do, I could make a cloned skin and it would at least load, though it had none of the modifications of its parent skin, instead reverting back to the original pristine Ningja. But now I'm apparently missing a style sheet altogether?

Names:
Original (parent) skin same as you guys named it: Ningja (but I've made modifications to it over the past several weeks, so it's now customized)
First cloned skin I named: jrNingjaLisa1
Then I deleted that one and tried a new clone without the "jr" in the name, named: NingjaLisa1
That's the one there now and doesn't work for me either.
I've now re-activated my (customized) Ningja skin, which seems to work fine.


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

it has to be "2 letter prefix" - "skin name"

Try: 'md' (for mounta...)
mdNingLisa

It should give you exactly what you have now, but also another skin.

If that doesn't work, send the login details to support at jamroom dot net and I'll take a look.

--edit--
no need to worry about the system check, its just clear caches and integrity that are the important ones.
updated by @michael: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

Ok, so naming the cloned skin "mdNingLisa" or "mdLisa1" works. And both now appear in the left side column as available choices "NingLisa" and "Lisa1".

But the skin names "mdNingjaLisa" or "jrNingjaLisa" or "NingjaLisa1" don't work.
Wish I knew why. What's the 'formula'? Where would one find out about these naming tricks, so others won't all be making my same mistakes when naming cloned skins?

Clicking on the "?" help tip gives me only this instruction: "Enter the name you would like to save this new skin as. NOTE: Only letters, numbers and underscores are allowed in the name."

So I have a working clone now...but it's not identical, it's missing various customizations from my parent skin. My custom top navbar links are there, so is my overall page background color... but my top logo image is back to the generic JR logo, and the header bar lost my custom color and the color/size of the link text, and the module titles have all reverted back to the original Ningja defaults.

edit- I take that back- in the new clones the top nav links are not all there- missing some and they are ordered and named as they were previously, not as i customized them.
Thanks for your help Michael- I'm off to bed now, will check in here again tomorrow.


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

I can reproduce the issue. I'll try to get it fixed.

The issue happens during adding the name of the skin and its similarity with the skins module name.

if you cloned jrNingJa to xxYellowStone I don't think the issue would appear because its very different.

I'll get it fixed up.
updated by @michael: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

I've found a way to make it work, but it requires some core level changes. I can't get this out immediately. I need the guys to take a look at the code and approve it first.

For now the way to avoid the issue is to pick a name without the base name in it.

The issue is when you clone a skin this happens:
* the files are copied to a new location
* the places where the skin name are found are replaced with the new name
* (the new bit) the skin name also changes to the new name.

That new bit is an additional search and replace on the files. What happens is instead of the skin becoming 'jrNingjaLisa1' it becomes 'jrNingjaLisa1Lisa1'.

If you named it like this:
Skin to Clone : jrNingja
New Skin Name : xxWombat

You'll be safe until the new changes get approved or a different solution is found.

Sorry for the hassle. Thanks for finding the bug Sturmelia.
updated by @michael: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

Ok, thanks Michael fixing this naming bug will help folks in the future from pulling their hair out.

HOWEVER- Even with the new naming method, I still am not getting a cloned skin that has the modifications I had built into the parent skin.
So... my original problem is still there- I can now make and name a new clone and it functions (with a style sheet)- but it doesn't have the mods i put into my customized ningja skin. Thus, it's NOT really a 'clone' and I still won't be able to update my current (modified) Ningja skin until i can make a real clone of it that retains my customizations that I've spent many hours working out over the past couple of weeks.

So, what next?


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

Now I have a Ningja skin update waiting to be installed....but I'm afraid I will lose my current Ningja skin modifications if I update over it.
Any cloned skins I was making lost all my modifications.
What should I do?
(-I just now updated all the other module updates already, all excpet the Ningja skin one.)


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

I can't understand how that could be happening. Can you walk me through what your doing so I can try to locate the bug please.
updated by @michael: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

Ok, I will now test again:
I go to my site on JR end. My customized Ningja skin is the active one. First I delete all previous attempted clones and save changes. Then I clear all caches, do integrity check.
Then go to Developer Tools (which I reloaded yesterday successfully, as per your instructions), to Clone Skin. I select Ningja skin, then name a new clone mdLisa1. It then says "The mdLisa1 skin has been cloned from the jrNingja skin".

I then go to my SKINS tab, I see "Lisa1" in the list, select it and set as active skin, and save changes.
I just now did all this again, and I do not get a real clone, I'm losing all my customizations I did in my Ningja skin.
See the two results: the one with my logo and blue header and customized links and module titles is thhe Ningja modified skin. The one with the JR logo and back to original non-modified Ningja settings is the Cloned Lisa1 skin.
The cloning is not 'really' cloning for me!
Thus, I still cannot update to the new version of Ningja skin, becasue I will lose all the mods I have struggled to make over the past couple weeks.
Correction: the correct logo is now appearing, but the top links are wrongly named and the forums link is gone, and the module title changes were lost and the top link strip is black again.
I know this stuff may not seem like a lot to lose, but I think it's important that people be able to really get a clone that is a true clone, or else there will be a whole lot of upset people every time there is a skin update.
Thanks!
P.S. I will not be around all the time today, just off and on.

Here is my customized Ningja skin I am wanting to clone. Notice the top links, the link names, positions, the Forums link. and the module titles, the blue strip at top.


--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

Here is the clone that isn't actually a clone:


--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

I have updated to the newest Ningja skin, and had to copy/paste my previous customizations into it, which all seemed to work well enough but took me way too much time.

After several more hours of looking it all over, I have come to realize that when i make a CLONE of a skin, the new clone DOES HAVE all the correct parent customization code in its templates such as in the header menu desktop and mobile templates, and those things are activated in their checkboxes and all...
But the customizations do not SHOW on my site when I set the clone as the active skin. The cloned skin appears as totally unmodified and untouched by me, except for the logo image at top (see my description in previous posts here). Yet the code in its templates is in fact all correct with the style modifications in place.

This is pretty weird and really must be fixed, or figured out ...what the hell is going on with it- ???? (and yes I am cache clearing integrity etc etc like mad)

Why am I able to clone a perfect cloned skin yet it does not present or exhibit my customizations online when set as the active skin ??? Please, this is going to repeatedly cause all kinds of issues every time a new update happens.



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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

Still not able to use any of my cloned skins. When i look at the code in the clone's templates, it shows my customizations just fine. But when i activate the cloned skin, my site does not show my customizations.

This is frustrating because it means I cannot do as you all suggest, which is clone the skin and only make modifications to the clone, not the main Ningja skin. I cannot do that because I can't set my clone as the active skin since my site won't show my mods when its activated. Thus, I have to keep making modif.'s to my active Ningja skin, not to my cloned skins. I gotta solve this clone puzzle eventually. I need to be able to make a cloned skin that I can activate and USE, and have the skin's customizations show up on my site. As it is now, I only use the clone to make a safe copy of my code modifications before I update the Ningja sklin each time. Then I look for and copy/paste my custom codes changes one by one into each new updated Ningja skin version every time Ningja gets updated. But this seems like it will become a monumental task as i add more and more customizations for my skin templates, in trying to develop my site's appearance.

OR...maybe I am misunderstanding? Maybe this is the way the Cloner is SUPPOSED to work? Simply as a way to keep a non-working COPY of your custom template code changes.... am i supposed to then just keep copy/pasting all my various customized codes into every new Ningja skin updated version and keep using the Ninja skin as the active skin?
(Can you tell I'm confused?) =8-\


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

I think Michael may have stopped working on this - I thought he was still fixing it. I will jump in and see if I can see what's up.

Sorry for any frustration - we have A LOT of stuff going on behind the scenes here, and with vacations and holidays sometimes things get overlooked. It's not intentional

Thanks!


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Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net
updated by @brian: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

This will be fixed with the next core release - there's actually a low level recursive directory function that had to be updated for this to work correctly. I will try to get the new core release out early next week.

I also see some other issues in the Clone Tool that I will fix - for now do not run it.

Thanks!


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Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net
updated by @brian: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

That's wonderful news! Thank you so much Brian!
Yes I will not touch the cloner til you say it's ok, and after the next core update.


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 12/29/14 09:23:54AM

I'm still holding off on applying the latest Ningja skin update until I can make a working clone of my customized Ningja skin once you have fixed the clone tool Brian. I don't want to lose what I've done in my skin templates this past week...and I've been unable to practically use any clones I made up til now- (they don't exhibit the modifications when activated, as I describe above).
Thanks!....


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

Yep - I know. I should have the new Core release out tomorrow - I'm actually testing right now.

Thanks!


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Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

This should be fixed now with Core 5.2.18 and Developer Tools 1.3.2 - update, clone and your cloned skin should fully work.

Hope this helps!


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Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Brian,
I DO notice a change in that a lot of what I've customized has now 'stuck' better.

But a lot of things are not making sense to me:

Sorry to be a downer today, but to be honest I could cry.

I don't know WHY logos are reverting back to JR logo in header in my clones, or WHY my customized header links some of them have now disappeared , some are reverted back to previous 'language' wording....
I don't know how I am supposed to keep my customized skin updated, or if my new updated Ningja skin is supposed to be wiped clean of all my customizations of the past two months.

I feel like so many things I do in my skin to make my site look like I want it to just get sneakily wiped or changed, and I dread every time Ningja skin gets an update...it keeps throwing me back where I have to keep redoing same changes over and over and over that I had sucessfully changed in my prior skin. I spent FIVE HOURS yesterday hunting down color tweaks, fonts tweaks, header tweaks, background tweaks, and had things looking much more like my goal. All this i did in Ningja .10 because the cloner hadn't been fixed yet. and now I notice little things here and there that have changed back in my clone despite my having carefully cloned ningja before applying the new update to .11 .

I mean, just one example- I cloned my .10 ningja skjin to new name right before I updated Ningja this morning. (first i updated all the toher modules and core) then updated Ningja to .11, then cloned the updated ningja skin as well...and my header logo has been replaced (again) by the JR logo. (wtf??) My logo is ok on my .10 clone skin, but other customizations were changed back or lost. Even though they seem to be there in the template code the way I had put them.

I have changed and saved a DOZEN times over the past month: my header links...to include one for "Forums" and one for Blogs, and to rename Images to Photos, and Profiles to Members. Now after being soooo careful and cloning/saving/comparing etc... now I find yet again my added Forums link is gone (yet the blogs one I had added remains in place..?!), my Photos, Members links are renamed again back to the default even though my template code seems to name them correctly...

I may need to take some time off. This skin template editing/updating/cloning/changsaving stuff is literally driving me insane and I'm losing SO much time and money by taking SO many hours off my regular job in order to keep redoing the SAME 100 silly details over and over and over, while I'm not positve sure my code is correct- though it appeared to be working fine before. And every time Ningja gets another update I dread it because I know i'll have to hunt down and do all these same things over yet again.

Is there something i am missing about the whole update/clone process, step by step? How am I supposed to update Ningja and then apply the update to my cloned customized skin without losing customization details in my clone over and over?

Maybe I need some real help, but still if I don't understand the cloning/updating procedure I envision these issues happening over and over forever.
Meanwhile, I can't get to the issues that I REALLY need to for my site- like moving modules on my main page or adding a module for forums, organizing basic layout and fixing major stuff....because all my time is being spent re-tweaking colored panels and fonts and links and logos and backgrounds over and over... and isn't that the definition of insanity?
Sorry to unload, i am just so exasperated today and may be losing my mind.


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

All the stuff should have been kept intact. I have test this here, and all customizations I make to one skin are transferred to the clone. It's not clear to me what you're actually doing though. Are you cloning the LATEST NingJa skin and trying to customize that? I really don't know what you are doing.


I would say something is wrong on your site. Updating a skin NEVER changes anything you have customized - ever. But regardless, you should not be doing your customization ON the actual NingJa skin, but instead:

- clone the NingJa skin
- make your customizations on your CLONE.


I think this is correct, but you're not understand how cloning works.

If you clone a skin that has NOT been customized (i.e. NingJa) then it is NOT going to have customizations in it that you have added to a CLONE of skin (say jrNingJaCustom).


Yeah I think there is - this should not be causing you all these problems. Here's how you do it:

- starting from an UNMODIFIED skin - i.e. Nongja, create your custom clone - jrNingjaCustom
- modify the templates/css/images in jrNingjaCustom
- when new release of jrNingja come up, update. This will not change anything in jrNingjaCustom. You can update jrNingja all you want without worry.
- now if you want to MIGRATE the changes in jrNingja over to jrNingjaCustom DO NOT clone again - you will wipe out your changes in jrNingjaCustom!!! Instead, go into the TEMPLATES tab in your jrNingjaCustom skin and click on the COMPARE button. In the compare select drop down in the upper right corner, select the jrNingja skin. This will now show you the difference between your custom skin template and the jrNingJa template. If you want to update your template with the one that is in jrNingja, just press the button to do so.

I have a feeling you are re-cloning, which is going to wipe out changes if you clone again over TOP of an existing clone.

Let me know if that makes sense.

Thanks!


--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Wait... some customizations seem to be now appearing where they did not ten minutes ago (and yes I cached and integretied...)
I need to do some some more waiting and testing, but maybe it just takes a few minutes to show up, or maybe only half as bad as it looked at first-

I'll get back here in an hour or two to update.
----I just read your post and will try to soak in what you've said- give me a few hours here. Thanks.


--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 12/30/14 09:45:29AM

Double check too that you're cloned skin is the "active" skin as well. All caching uses the skin name as part of the cache key prefix, so you should immediately see your changes (if they are there) after making your cloned skin active.

Hope this helps!


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Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Brian, one question for the moment-
My basic Ningja skin has been modified so many times... I don't HAVE an unmodified version of Ningja to 'start with. So...how can I GET one and get rid of the massively modified Ningja .11 updated skin I now have? (I have cloned skins that are named mdLisa1, 2... for safekeeping.)
Am I supposed to clone an unmodified Ningja and call it jrNinggjaCustom in ADDITION to having my customized mdLisa1, 2 cloned skins?


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

OK, so as things stand right now....
none of my cloned skins (mdLisa2, 3) are exhibitig all the several hundred customization tweaks I have so laboriously created over the past two months. Various things are changed or missing.
BUT...my single newly-updated 1.0.11 Ningja skin, which is currently activated...is showing ALL my 2months' worth of customizations correctly. It's the one perfect version of everything I've customized.

Not understanding everything yet, but- How do I SAVE this one good version and keep all my modifications absolutely SAFE,....and then put in place a new 1.0.11 Ningja skin which has no modifications at all, so I can keep updating IT in the future as you advise? (I could not do this in the past because the Cloner was not working as it should have been).

I know you are telling me:
"you should not be doing your customization ON the actual NingJa skin, but instead:
- clone the NingJa skin
- make your customizations on your CLONE."

But I was not able to do that til now, because up til, every time I activated one of my customized cloned skins, it was not showing many of my customizations, despite the code saying it was right. Thus, I've been having to keep the Ningja skin activated and do my customizing on that all this time- so at least I could see my efforts.
And now I'm stuck in this dilemma as I've described above. All my hard work is there in my basic Ningja skin which is updated already, and I have no 'virgin' Ningja skin...plus the mdLisa clones I made from my customized Ningja are not showing many of my customizations...so I can't use them as the active skins.
What to do?

If I could just get past this f-ing clone/custom/updating/skin issue, I could go back to BUILDING MY SITE- because there are some major and crucial things that need doing and changing. I can't move in and go live as it is now.

I have been putting the IMPORTANT basic organizing site issues and changes I need to do on the back burner because I was expecting the Site Builder Tool to enable me to drag/drop modules and links and columns around from my Ningja skin custom clone. (since I'm not a coder) So meanwhile, I was trying to keep busy customizing colors, links, language, fonts, and header and such...but ran headlong into the cloneTool/updatingskin issue. I have a fresher ning archive I wanted to import over the old one to test that vital function, in anticipation of a 'final/live' member content migration, but I can't do that either because the Import Tool is being fixed right now. I feel like I am at a standstill, and it's very frustrating. But at least I can see my skin customizations in my active customized Ningja skin (which I wasn't supposed to be customizing so now I'm doomed?)

If I lose everything I've struggled to achieve for two (three?) months now, I might have to simply give up.

Sorry, I guess I just had to vent today. I don't know what to do about my customized skin dilemma now.


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 12/30/14 01:29:35PM

I'm kind of in the same boat here, since cloning was not working correctly (and I never really understood the process anyway). So I have been modding the originals too.

My "work-a-round" has been to save copies of the altered templates, and manually put back the changes that were made. Style settings in the CSS files are particularly problematic, since many of them are not accessible in the ACP, and have to be done at the server file level.

So, now that the cloning tool is supposedly working correctly, I'm confused (even after reading the above) as to how I am supposed to "freeze" all my current ACP and cpanel file mods to a new skin, and go forward with the correct procedure.

These 3 tricks are what I have been finding useful so far.

1) Instead of the old "changesets" of JR4 (which only overwrote some files), it seems ( on updates) every file is given fresh in a new skin folder delineated by version number.

So, if you I made new templates, stored images, or modified files, those are now (at the server level) in the old folder but can be easily copied to the new one.

2) A CSS file can be accessed by PHP admin (under skin settings), which will INSTANTLY restore (if copied to the new skin) ALL the ACP generated style changes.

3) Keeping a record of all my mods, allows me to write them back manually when necessary.

==============================

I'm hoping the cloning tool can make these tricks unnecessary, but I'm having trouble grasping the concepts involved.

I mean, where are the ACP template mods stored. If "frozen" into a clone skin, are they no longer stored but only visible with the comparison tool?

The updated skin becomes the new original, so now do we use comparison to see the mods generated by the update itself, plus our own mods?

In other words, are we supposed to manually look for and install all the new updates to our clone?

What if they involve javascript, or CSS, that doesn't show in the templates? I don't understand how that can work.

The only thing that makes sense to me, is to add my modifications to the new version. Then I don't have to worry about what Jamroom changed. What am I missing?


--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 12/30/14 12:52:22PM

" The updated skin becomes the new original, so now do we use comparison to see the mods generated by the update itself, plus our own mods?
In other words, are we supposed to manually look for and install all the new updates to our clone?
What if they involve javascript, or CSS, that doesn't show in the templates? I don't understand how that can work.
The only thing that makes sense to me, is to add my modifications to the new version. Then I don't have to worry about what Jamroom changed. What am I missing? "

OMG thank you Ken, these are the confusions I'm having as well and thank goodness there is someone besides me who has been having to customize my original (Ningja) skin. I feel better just knowing I'm not alone in not knowing how to proceed next and/or fix my situation.


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

Well I'm pretty sure it's just something we are not "getting" about the concept. Probably because we are not programmers.

Maybe it's something the staff finds so elementary and obvious, that they don't see the need to elaborate? Like forgetting to tell a tourist about the one way street, because you have driven it that way all your life and now it's second nature.

I can't quite put my finger on it, but it appears to be a "hole" in understanding the "mechanics" of how it all works.


--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

Yes - this is correct. The "compare" template tool was designed to help with this. Once you create a new skin (say "myCustomSkin") that is cloned from an existing skin, it "stands alone". If you clone it from jrNingja, and the update jrNingja, it does NOT update your "myCustomSkin" (nor would we want it to!).

The primary goal with cloning is not to try to keep everything in "sync" with the skin you cloned from, but is designed to allow you to customize your site without worrying about losing changes when you update.

Let me know if that helps.


--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Hi Brian,

That helps but only if Jamroom makes changes that show in the templates, and on update they announce which templates were altered.

However, CSS and Javacript changes don't necessarily appear in the templates, so how are we supposed to get those, assuming that we want to "sync" to the new updates? That's one thing that confuses me, it's almost like a changeset still needs to be provided, but it isn't.


The thing that I find confusing is that it's not really an update for us. The update is only for the old version we cloned from, it's not affecting our renamed cloned skin. So it's not really an update for us.

Not unless we are provided with a changeset, and detailed instructions on how to manually apply the update. The "changes" description that currently comes with an update is pretty "sketchy" at best. Just short one line statements that are not detailed instructions.

So one would be forced to look through all the templates for changes, but the CSS and Javascript changes wouldn't show there. There is no way for us to stay in sync with those under the current system.

Therefore (as far as I can see), if one wants to stay in sync with the new Jamroom updates, "PLUS" maintain mods of their own, the only viable option is to reapply one's mods to the new skin version.

Does that make sense?


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Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

Yes - it makes sense. 95% of all changes in a skin are for the templates - the Javascript that skins "run" is almost all in the modules, so you would rarely need to worry about that. And if you are NOT customizing the JS then you can always just copy the new JS overtop of the JS in your custom skin's SkinName/js directory.

I just want to be sure you guys know how it works. I know it may not be 100% perfect, but it has been really helpful to our customers to know they can update the "default" skins to check them out and see what has changed without worrying about their custom skin changes being overwritten.

Note too that if you look at the change log for a skin when it is updated, Douglas puts the templates that have changed in there which will save you time.

Hope this helps!


--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Ah - now that we've settled that, it leaves me with a request. Here is a real life illustration to make the need apparent.

Lets say one has made dozens, perhaps hundreds of changes. Some on templates, some in CSS files on the server. I'm up to dozens already, so hundreds is not far fetched.

Then let's say Jamroom comes out with an update that changes just a couple things. It would be easier to add those changes to my clone, rather than have to reapply dozens (perhaps hundreds) of mods to the new skin version.

Therefore, something kind of similar to the JR4 "changesets" might be useful. Or at least a little more detail to what it is Douglas is doing in the new version(s). What I have been seeing in the skin "changes" description is a little "sketchy".

What I am saying is this. It would be nice to have it more "idiot proof", so we can update our clones with full confidence. Then we won't have to work in the opposite direction, and have to update the new version(s) with our growing list of mods.


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Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

OK, I get what you two have been saying. I haven't noticed where it's been mentioned what templates have been altered in each update. I look harder next time.
But I remain now with this dilemma that I'm in now:
---My basic Ningja .11 skin is now the only skin that has all my hundred or so personal modifications that took me almost 3 months to make. It's working nicely as my active skin.
---The clones I have seem to be missing various customizations...or they seem to have them in their code but do not exhibit them when activated (haven't figured THAT out yet).

SO....
1)should I now make a NEW mdLisa clone of my current active working Ningja skin that has all my mods?
2) assuming yes, then how do I get back a ningja skin that is pristine and current with NONE of my gazillion customizations, to use going forward as a non-customized version that I update periodically with JR updates? (um, no way could I go in and FIND all the modifications I have stumbled around in the css and style settings for two months now)

I guess I'm asking if I can now make a new clone of my current customized Ningja, test to make sure it keeps all my mods, and then get rid of the parent one and install a fresh virgin Ningja skin that now the latest version, (but without any of my million customizations) ??

I need to be able to get back on the right path here so I can move forward. Without losing all my work. My wagon is stuck in the mud.


--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

Hi Strumelia,

This update should help with part of your problem.

Version 1.3.2:
- New: Clone Skin now properly copies customized Templates, CSS and Images to new skin

For the rest, this might help.

If you look in your file folders on the server (cpanel - publicHTML/skins), you should find all the old versions of Ningja, and the current one. If you have monkeyed with those at the file level (not just ACP) and you wish to restore to a pristine condition, I think you can try - yoursite/marketplace/admin/tools

There is a tool for reloading skins, and an archive for restoring older versions. I don't think that part of your dilemma is problematic.

What may be trouble, is that you didn't keep a record of your CSS changes. If they were done at the ACP level, no problem. They are in a file you can copy with the PHPAdmin function of your cpanel. Takes 2 minutes to grab them.

However, if you have been tweaking things in the actual files (at the server level) and not keeping track, I don't know what to suggest.

Unfortunately (and this is the crux of the matter), in order to benefit from all of Jamroom's mods to Ningja, there are only two possibilities.

1) You can try to find out what Jamroom's mods were, and add them to your clone.

2) Alternately, you can download the latest Ningja version (which has their mods) and then add your personal mods to it.

What I suggested to Brian, is that it might be better for us to have the "changeset" info, so we can tweak our clones, rather than work in the opposite direction and add our mods to new Ningja versions.


--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 12/31/14 12:51:07AM

You should not be doing it that way as it is. The "compare" tool was designed to help you with this:

- when a new version of NingJa comes out, update to it
- go into the TEMPLATE tab of your custom skin
- click on "compare" next to the template you want to compare
- adjust the drop down so it shows the template from jrNingJa - i.e. "jrNingJa/index.tpl - 1.0.11"
- that will show you the difference between the NEW jrNingja/index.tpl file and YOUR index.tpl file.

We actually do have some small updates for this coming in the next release - Michael has worked in a nicer looking compare screen that did not quite make it into this last release, adn there's a few other tweaks and updates as well that could help.

Maintaining change sets is not something we will go back to however, so we just want to come up with a solution here that is workable.

Thanks!


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Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Hi Brian,

Yes, I understand how the compare tool works. I think it's a great feature and I'm glad enhancements are coming. The problem I have is not the tool itself, but with the lack of documentation.

1) We are not given any substantial info about what the changes do. Therefore, as non coders we don't know if it's something we want to incorporate into our clone, or pass on. Non-coders need a plain English statement.

2) Also, template comparisons, don't tell us anything about any CSS or Javascript mods that Jamroom might have made. Those cannot be seen by the tool, so unless they are documented, how do we know?

So what I would like to see, is better accompanying or supplementary information in plain English.

Example: The index file change in this release decreases the width of the site activity feed, and increases the width of the Top blogs feed. A 3D effect is created around the header logo border, by adding this section (XXXXX) to the header.css file found in your c-panel =>public html=>skins=>Ningja 1.12=>css.

===========================================

I wouldn't want to see the "changesets" routine come back again either, since it was hard for non coders to understand and implement. However, some elements of it might be useful in the new system.

For one, the level of documentation and the archive that provided was handy. Also, I fail to see how a somewhat similar procedure can be avoided, for changes outside of the templates - CSS for instance.


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Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

All of this is what the change log is for. I understand your desire to know the small details in what has changed, but the changelog is likely to be as "granular" as we are going to get. It is in plain english as well, so that should be good.

One thing we will check out and see if it makes sense is to have something that will let you "copy" CSS and JS from a skin to your custom skin. That's something we would need to carefully do, as my first priority is to make sure it doesn't overwrite a user's changes.

Thanks!


--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

I am having trouble with the new "Compare" function for my templates.
I start by trying to compare any particular template in my (newly cloned) active LisaNew skin to my Ningja (customized) .11 skin- and at first it loads by comparing LisaNew to Lisanew (despite the drop down menu saying Ningja 11). Nothing happens if I refresh the page, so I go to compare LisaNew with Ningja.10 in the dropdown, which it goes to ok. So then I change the dropdown to Ningja.11, and it presents me with a compare of Ningja.11 with Ningja.11. LisaNew disappears in the compare altogether.

2nd scenario:
I start with LisaNew and go to compare another tmeplate- It starts me on a page comparing Lisa to Lisa. I set the dropdown to Ningja .08, and I get a good compare page. Then I set the dropdown to Ningja .09....and I get a compare of Ningja .11 to Ningja .09 (lisaNew has disappeared again.)

Does anyone else experience this since the recent updates? I didn't have this problem a few days ago- the compare function with its dropdown menu for versions was working as expected then.

P.S. Ken thank you for your suggestions- I will get back to you about them once I get through this other stuff. (!!!)


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

The compare function in the current core is not new - we have changes coming for the next core release - we did not have time to get them into the last one.


There have been no changes to the compare functionality in quite some time. I will try to replicate what you are seeing here, but I've not seen it before.

Thanks!


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Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Thanks Brian. I am certain I was not having this compare glitch before- it's only in the past few days I'm experiencing it. If you can't replicate it on your site then maybe you could sign into my site and observe it. It's going to prevent me from being able to update ANY of my skins whenever a new Ningja skin version is released...and as you know I'm having enough trouble already, without this new odd behavior tying my hands completely now.
Thanks for your help. This whole skin update/cloning dilemma is now really preventing me from moving forward on JR.


--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015
updated by @strumelia: 01/01/15 08:28:01AM

I'm beginning to think that possibly you have a corrupted clone of a skin. The developer tools module release that came out before the last one was not actually working properly, and I am thinking it could have changed some of the fields in the DB to the wrong value and so your clone is "not in sync" properly. Being new Years day I only have a few minutes left in the office but will check this out for you tomorrow. If you can send me your login info I will check it out.

Thanks!


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Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

I'm off to a gathering as well, so all this can take up tomorrow, no problem. Just please don't lose my gazillion customizations in my LisaNew skin...they took me two months to do! =8-0
Will send you the login info now, but then I'm off for the rest of the day. Thanks much, Brian.


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...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015

BIG thanks to Brian fixing a few 'short-circuits' for me-

Things seem to be working much better for me now- still some little oddities here and there, but hey it's functional and I can now forge ahead! YAY, and WHEW what a relief.
I now have a new Ningja skin which I will no longer be customizing, only updating. And when i make my customized skin clones now, they WORK, and they exhibit all my tweaks when activated. Feel like a big weight lifted off my back now.
I'm (finally) going to mark this thread resolved.

THANK YOU Brian for your help in finding the problems and repairing them.


--
...just another satisfied Jamroom customer.
Migrated from Ning to Jamroom June 2015