Profile Domain Module - Procedure Not Recommended? - The Jamroom Network

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

I really want to get this module working on my network, so I sent the installation guide to my server guy.

https://www.jamroom.net/the-jamroom-network/documentation/modules/2239/profile-domains

He came back with some links and a warning. He said he would not recommend doing it that way!!!

The problem he said, is that root should not be used to store anything, and the changes manually made by SSH that the Jamroom guide suggests, could be overwritten by a panel update, or lost in a crash. There would be no way to restore and even the network itself could be lost.

He suggested there may be a better way, having to do with splitting the Apache. These links are what he is basing his opinion on. Are his concerns unfounded?

https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/ALD/Global+Configuration
https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/EA/Apache+Configuration+File+and+Building+Apache

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 03/06/15 12:02:15PM

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Ken_Rich:
I really want to get this module working on my network, so I sent the installation guide to my server guy.

https://www.jamroom.net/the-jamroom-network/documentation/modules/2239/profile-domains

He came back with some links and a warning. He said he would not recommend doing it that way!!!

The problem he said, is that root should not be used to store anything

I'm not sure what he means here - Jamroom is not doing anything with your root account, nor storing anything in it.

Quote:
and the changes manually made by SSH that the Jamroom guide suggests, could be overwritten by a panel update, or lost in a crash. There would be no way to restore and even the network itself could be lost.

This is 100% untrue, and it if it were true it would apply equally to any config by any server (apache, mysql, etc.). He is correct however that if you are using CPanel on you server then you will need to integrate it differently depending on where your Apache config is. I can't claim to know every config for every possible way your server could be setup, so our guide is designed for a "default" install of Apache (we use Ubuntu 14.04 LTS). Your server guy should know this.

Quote:
He suggested there may be a better way, having to do with splitting the Apache. These links are what he is basing his opinion on. Are his concerns unfounded?

I can't tell you how to configure this with Cpanel - I don't use Cpanel (and wouldn't) but the issue is going to be:

- if you want to run this module and let it configure Apache for you, you'll need to set it up like we indicate in the guide. How and where that is done on your server I don't know.

- you can skip the Apache config in our guide and manually configure each new domain as a ServerAlias yourself if you want. Your server guy should know how to do this and show you how if you want to do it this way.

Hope this helps!

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Hi Brian,

Thanks - I'll let him know what you said and see if that solves it for him.

Meanwhile, if anyone gets it working with cpanel (or can suggest a guide specifically for configuring it with cpanel), can you please let me know.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Hi Brian,

Thanks for that info.

I sent him what you wrote above. His response is that the cpanel developers themselves (not him), do not recommend what you are suggesting, based primarily on this article.

https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/EA/Apache+Configuration+File+and+Building+Apache

Quote: I'm not sure what he means here - Jamroom is not doing anything with your root account, nor storing anything in it.

His interpretation of your guide, is that you are asking him to make changes in root via SSH, to a dynamic config file. In his opinion, what you suggest will work, but may be lost if the system recompiles.

Quote: How and where that is done on your server I don't know.

I think that is the crux of the matter. In a cpanel set-up, the "where" you are suggesting is in a dynamic file that will be overwritten if it recompiles. Therefore, a different approach is required.

Quote: (from the link above) Because httpd.conf is dynamically-written, direct changes to httpd.conf are at risk of being overwritten by the cPanel and WHM software.

He is not qualified to invent a guide to do this safely on a cpanel server. However, he is competent enough to follow a guide (if one becomes available).

Therefore, I am unable to purchase the module until an "idiot proof" guide to installing it on a cpanel server exists. He is afraid it will cause me serious problems otherwise, and refuses to do the install.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 01/23/15 08:17:32AM

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Ken - have you contacted Cpanel to find out how it modifies the Apache config?

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Hi Brian,

No, I haven't personally contacted them. I am only relating my friends interpretation (or misinterpretation) of your guide vs this document from cpanel - https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/EA/Apache+Configuration+File+and+Building+Apache

It would be kind of pointless for me to contact cpanel, because I don't really understand any of this. It would be like asking them to explain rocket science to a fifth grader - lol.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Ken_Rich:
Hi Brian,

No, I haven't personally contacted them. I am only relating my friends interpretation (or misinterpretation) of your guide vs this document from cpanel - https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/EA/Apache+Configuration+File+and+Building+Apache

It would be kind of pointless for me to contact cpanel, because I don't really understand any of this. It would be like asking them to explain rocket science to a fifth grader - lol.

Aren't they the ones who could provide documentation on how to customize the Apache config? I'm assuming that cpanel offers support for their product. Maybe your server guy knows how? I mean at some point WHM configures Apache for a domain... how is that done?

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Here's something I found Googling - maybe it will help your server guy:

http://blog.webhostingdiscussion.net/cpanel/customize-httpd-conf-for-virtualhost-in-cpanel.htm

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Hi Brian,

Again quoting the linked document.

Quote: Instead of changing the httpd.conf file directly, you can use the EasyApache interface to configure Apache.

The problem is, he doesn't have the smarts to do that without a procedure. The one thing he is sure of, is that it has to be a permanent change, that won't be overwritten on updates and such. He sees a problem relating to that, in what you have provided so far.

He said one would probably need to "split" the Apache (whatever that means), so that your modifications rebuild themselves and come back after updates and crashes.

I'm probably not the best "middleman" to convey the technical issue he sees, since I don't really understand how any of this works. If you want to contact him directly he is here.

Calvin Layden
callayden@gmail.com

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

brian:
Here's something I found Googling - maybe it will help your server guy:

http://blog.webhostingdiscussion.net/cpanel/customize-httpd-conf-for-virtualhost-in-cpanel.htm

I just noticed this after I posted above. I'll send to him and see if it helps. Thanks.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 01/23/15 11:51:40AM

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Thanks for the update Ken - I don't want to be on the hook for anything done on your server, so I will leave that up to your server guy - he should be able to Google or contact CPanel, and based on the guide we've provided find out right where the change would need to go (basically in the Apache config for your domain).

To be honest with you, since he does not know how to do it indicates to me that you're "flying blind" when it comes to how your server is setup - probably not the best. If your server guy is just a friend doing it on the side for you, that's no biggie and understandable, but if you're getting your server from a hosting provider and this is what they are telling you, I think that points out that they really don't know what they are doing or how to support the product they are selling you. Just my 2 cents of course...

I don't have access to WHM here so unfortunately cannot give you a detailed guide on how to do it.

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Hi Brian,

He's a friend who learned servers in the Military. He now has a small server company, so is a hosting provider of sorts, but not on the same level as your preferred host.

From his point of view, expecting the server company to do an advanced custom install, without providing the correct procedure for it, is asking them to spend time and money in support of your script.

He also doesn't want to be "on the hook" if your proposed config changes are overwritten, such that my clients lose their stuff, or the network itself crashes. So he doesn't want me to be the "guinea pig" on this one.

However, I understand that you don't have WHM so cannot give a detailed guide. If you do happen to have someone install it in WHM, please forward the procedure they used and I will buy the module.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Ken_Rich:
From his point of view, expecting the server company to do an advanced custom install, without providing the correct procedure for it, is asking them to spend time and money in support of your script.

I think we're just asking them to understand how the system they are charging you for works. We have already explained how Jamroom works, and how to configure the module.

We are not the sysadmin's for your server, so we don't know how to configure Apache for your server, nor can we write a guide for every single variation of control panel or server OS's out there (there are many hundreds).

Based on your post I believe you're waiting for us to tell your sysadmin how to configure your server, which really isn't our area. Our guide already shows you how to modify your Apache config to put in the proper config needed for the module. If your server person can't figure out how that is done on your server, I would look for hosting from someone who understands the product they are selling.

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net
updated by @brian: 01/23/15 01:06:20PM

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Hey Ken - rereading this I hope I'm not coming across as arguing - I definitely try not to do that with customers! What I'm reading from this though is:

- your provider doesn't like our setup instructions
- wants us to tell him how to do it differently

Do you see what I mean?

Thanks!

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Ken - if you want to send me a PN (Private Note) with your WHM login I can look around in there and see if I can spot where it would be added on your server.

Hope this helps!

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

brian:
Hey Ken - rereading this I hope I'm not coming across as arguing - I definitely try not to do that with customers! What I'm reading from this though is:

- your provider doesn't like our setup instructions
- wants us to tell him how to do it differently

Do you see what I mean?

Thanks!

Hi Brian,

No problem dude. I completely understand!!! It must be very frustrating on your end of it. He get's frustrated too, because he sees a danger he wants to protect me from, but I can't understand it, let alone communicate it effectively.

He says he can do what your guide suggests in 5 minutes, that's not the problem. The problem is it will only work until it re-compiles due to any number of reasons, like updates and crashes. The "where" it goes is a dynamic file.

At any rate, I bought the module and my friend has what he calls a "SERVER GOD" from the datacenter looking into it. Not one of their ordinary front line techs, but someone senior and very advanced. They were available by "happenstance" because of something else that is "cooking" - so I got lucky.

He says they are going to put in something custom, whereby my stuff won't recompile and be overwritten like a standard set-up would do. Apparently, for this to work in WHM, something special along those lines is required, but I don't know how to describe it other than that. He has to "dumb it down" when communicating to me.

Quote: Ken - if you want to send me a PN (Private Note) with your WHM login I can look around in there and see if I can spot where it would be added on your server.

Well you are always welcome in my cpanel, but this stuff is going on in root and it almost requires an "act of congress" for him to let someone in there - lol. However, if this stuff doesn't work out, I will suggest it to him - thanks. No really - thanks!!!

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 01/24/15 05:36:46AM

SteveX
@ultrajam
9 years ago
2,584 posts

http://serverfault.com/questions/85959/does-webmin-virtualmin-overwrite-apache-conf-files-like-plesk
The dev's answer is informative although it is 5 years old. It sounds like the Jamroom module would work fine with webmin/virtualmin (which is equivalent to whm/cpanel), but the dev doesn't know of other systems which don't overwrite config files using templates.

--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the info. I read it, tried to grasp it, but this stuff is way "out of my league".

If I am understanding correctly, having Apache config changes overwritten is not something unheard of, or dealt with by other people who work with this stuff. That's about all I gleaned from it.

It's like a line from the original Star Trek pilot episode applies to me - "the intelligence of the species is shockingly limited" - but thanks for trying to point me in the right direction anyway - lol.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 01/24/15 07:13:46AM

SteveX
@ultrajam
9 years ago
2,584 posts

There is a way of checking if changes to httpd.conf will be overwritten or not by cpanel:
https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/EA/Advanced+Apache+Configuration#AdvancedApacheConfiguration-Modifythehttpd.conffiledirectly

--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

SteveX:
There is a way of checking if changes to httpd.conf will be overwritten or not by cpanel:
https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/EA/Advanced+Apache+Configuration#AdvancedApacheConfiguration-Modifythehttpd.conffiledirectly

Dude - it looks like you are definitely fishing in the right pond there. I'm going to pass this link along to my server guy - this seems to be the very thing he was attempting to communicate to me as the issue.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

What would we do without SteveX - thanks @ultrajam

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

SteveX:
There is a way of checking if changes to httpd.conf will be overwritten or not by cpanel:
https://documentation.cpanel.net/display/EA/Advanced+Apache+Configuration#AdvancedApacheConfiguration-Modifythehttpd.conffiledirectly

As it turns out, that is the same info he gave us initially and which I linked above at the top of the thread - lol

("It's a Small World After All" - begins to play)

He is well aware of that info, apparently he was trying to get me to make Jamroom aware of it, and see if there was a ready made and tested procedure, so the install could be easily done but take into account that issue.

He thinks that someone (perhaps less cautious) may do the install as prescribed, have clients building in their custom domains, and then have all their work wiped out down the road - which would be disastrous.

If I am understanding correctly - that's the danger he sees and he wants to be very confident of the install procedure, before I take that risk.

He's also not happy that he has to be the one to research it and get the datacenter's "SERVER GOD" involved, instead of being provided with a tested procedure to start with. It costs him time and resources and it's not his script, so I can see his point there. It cost us all time in this long thread as well.

Anyway, I think we are all on the same page now, as far as understanding what the actual issue is. How the resolution plays out is yet to be seen, but I think the datacenter guy will have no problem with this.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 01/24/15 09:13:08AM

SteveX
@ultrajam
9 years ago
2,584 posts

Ken, the info is different on the page I linked to (although it is in the same manual).

You said that your server support said that the module will work but that they were worried about the changes being wiped out when cpanel updates the files.

The section of the page I linked to tells you how to run a cpanel script to see if the changes will be wiped out (very simple, only one line). If the changes to httpd.conf are gone after running the script then you will know that the module will not work for you. If the changes remain after running the script then you know that it will work for you.

Of course they need to run that as root, which may not be available if they are on a whm reseller setup.

--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Hi Steve,

Yes, your link went straight to the appropriate section of the page, his was to the full page, but it is still the same info.

He has root access, so he can run that. He must have already, because he is concerned about it being overwritten.

At any rate, the data center's "top dog" is on the case now, so there is no sense wasting more time on it until we see what they come up with.

Thanks bunches though for your support on this. Might still be needed depending on what they come back with.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

SteveX
@ultrajam
9 years ago
2,584 posts

Maybe you are clicking the wrong link Ken, or maybe one of your links changed buth they are definitely 3 different pages. Anyway, I expect your server guy has already made sense of it, but just in case...

I linked to "Advanced Apache Configuration", which tells you the 5 ways that you can edit your apache config on your cpanel server. It says this near the top of the page:

Quote: Make certain that you only use the methods below to modify your Apache configuration. If you use a method that we do not support, cPanel & WHM and EasyApache can overwrite your custom configuration.

I think that the section I linked to would be the best place to start. You can run the cpanel script to check that the jamroom changes are not wiped out (and also the easyapache script, my mistake above, there are 2 scripts to run in order to be certain).

I interpret that as meaning you can run those 2 scripts and if the jamroom changes remain, then "bingo" you have your solution on your specific whm/cpanel server config. But if the changes are wiped out, you will have an unchanged server and might need to try one of the other methods. I'd give it a try myself but I don't have root access on my whm/cpanel server (its a reseller account). My more recent servers use webmin/virtualmin (which work better for my needs).

Your links lead to "Apache Configuration File and Building Apache" and "Global Configuration".

--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

From the senior datacenter tech:

I've looked over this addon.

Basically, it comes down to whether you trust developers of the addon or not.

There is a way to include this addon configuration to this site config without it being overwritten by future cpanel upgrades.

However, the fact that this addon configuration resides in public_html is a security risk in itself. If this site or cpanel user becomes compromised, this could affect server security.

That, and the fact that we should include a 3rd party configuration file in your apache config makes this process questionable, as far as potential gains are concerned.

In the end it is up to you. There are risks, but I do not have enough information to evaluate how serious those risks are. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

===================================

So my server guy is now asking for more information on how you secure this in the public HTML. Any pertinent information you could provide would be appreciated, so the risks can be assessed.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

I guess it comes down to do you trust Jamroom? Do you trust us?

- The config file is written into the public_html directory since 99% of the time the web user has no permission to write outside of that directory.

- Add a domain with the module and look at what it writes to the file. You will see it adds "ServerAlias" entries. If this file WERE to get hacked, the worst that could be done is they could disable your domain.

Let me ask you this:

Is your web server secured?
Are you using hardened PHP?
Are you running FTP on your server? (you're waiting to get hacked if you do)
Are you running SSH on a non-standard port?
Have you installed a firewall to only allow logins by authorized IPs?
Have you disabled root password logins and gone to 100% SSH key logins?
Are you 100% certain CPanel is all secure?
Is everyone with root level access to your server someone you trust?

I bring these up just to point out that there is A LOT of trust that needs to happen here, as well as a lot of things that can go wrong if you do not have a competent admin.

At this point I'd rather not go back and forth with your server guy - I think you just need to make a choice on what you want to do.

I will say again that you can skip the Apache config part and just manually add each ServerAlias by hand if you like.

Thanks!

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Ken - just thought of one other alternate - you could manually copy the file that Jamroom creates to an offline directory and included it there - it's a manual step, but at least that way you let JR "manage" the contents of the file for you.

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the info. I'll pass it on and see if he will finally do the install.

Sorry to put you through all this. However, I'd rather see him be cautious and thorough, than to err in the other direction and be "willy nilly".

Hopefully, he will feel confident enough with the security to do the install now. Thanks again.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 01/24/15 02:10:29PM

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

brian:
Ken - just thought of one other alternate - you could manually copy the file that Jamroom creates to an offline directory and included it there - it's a manual step, but at least that way you let JR "manage" the contents of the file for you.

OK thanks - I'm not really understanding that one, but I'm sure the server guy will. I'll pass it along as an option to consider.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Datacenter Guru said:

developer is 100% correct in that last response, adding an include to domain's virtual host is not a problem here in itself, it is rather easy to do and we can basically include any file from any location, the main issue here is as the developer has mentioned one of the trust nature, if you do trust them than sure, this can be added.

I also do not see any potential security risks in doing this which would affect other domains on the server as the include will only be for this domain apache virtual host not for others, so if this gets compromised somehow than only this domain would be affected basically.

we certainly can do this, but there is no /home/indiegospel/public_html/data/media/0/0/apache_server_alias_include.conf file currently under this account structure so we can not generate the include properly, as the file needs to exist so that configuration with include can be generated and saved within cpanel so that it does not overwrite the change.

Can you please check and advise, or should we simply create that file ourselves as empty file?

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

The install was done by the datacenter, but testing has failed. I tried it on kenrich.me to indiegospel.net/ken-rich but had to deactivate it.

What I saw in Chrome is a "not found" and indiegospel.net/ken-rich/ken-rich in the address bar.

In IE I saw a totally blank page and the two domains alternating back and forth repeatedly. kenrich.me to indiegospel.net/ken-rich alternating.

In Firefox I got this message: The page isn't redirecting properly... Firefox has detected that the server is redirecting the request for this address in a way that will never complete...This problem can sometimes be caused by disabling or refusing to accept cookies. indiegospel.net/ken-rich showed in address bar.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So the question I have now, is this problem being caused by the module, or an improper installation procedure?

I can verify that /home/indiegospel/public_html/data/media/0/0/apache_server_alias_include.conf is written when the domain is active and this is the value - ServerAlias kenrich.me

When I deactivate the module, that config file disappears from data/media/0/0

That's all I know at this point. I don't really know what to make of these symptoms. I'm going to pass this to the hosting company too, for their input.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Ken_Rich:
So the question I have now, is this problem being caused by the module, or an improper installation procedure?

I can verify that /home/indiegospel/public_html/data/media/0/0/apache_server_alias_include.conf is written when the domain is active and this is the value - ServerAlias kenrich.me

When I deactivate the module, that config file disappears from data/media/0/0

This sounds correct. Did you restart Apache after activating the Domain? Make sure and check the "use www" as well. And did you make sure "kenrich.me" had the DNS updated to point to your server and it had propagated for a full 24 hours?

https://www.jamroom.net/the-jamroom-network/documentation/modules/2239/profile-domains

We've run this for months here on Jamroom.net and it works.

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Hi Brian,

GETTING EXITED BECAUSE THIS IS CLOSE NOW - LOL.

1) kenrich.me has been redirected for weeks so the DNS resolved long ago.

2) I don't want to see the www so I'm not sure why I need to check that? The help file says that's a "cosmetic" choice, to be checked ONLY if you want it to show - which I don't.

3) I assume I don't have to add kenrich.me to the ACP -> Core -> System Core -> Global Config -> Allowed Domains because I have it set to allow all domains.

4) Host says he doesn't know if the problem is on their side or script side. However, he is agreeable to restart Apache. I'll reactive the domain and then get him to restart.

Question: Is this a one time thing, for the first domain, or will apache have to be restarted every time a new domain is added?

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Ken_Rich:
Question: Is this a one time thing, for the first domain, or will apache have to be restarted every time a new domain is added?

It has to be restarted every time a domain is added - there's no way around that. Apache reads it's config at startup time only, so you need to gracefully restart Apache after a domain is added.

I have an idea on a way to "automate" this for a future release, but for now you'll need to restart Apache.

Hope this helps!

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Hi Brian,

1) Restarting the apache didn't fix it.

2) I also tried with the www on, but that didn't help either.

3) Tried setting minimum browser security and making sure 3rd party cookies enabled.

4) Been resetting cache on JR5 and browsers.

The host and I are out of ideas at this point. I deactivated again for the time being.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Not really sure what to recommend. Did you make sure the domain was active? i.e. not just configure but active?

What is the IP address of your server?

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Yes - I activated it before the Apache restart, but have since deactivated it.

Server IP is 66.35.93.162 My network is on dedicated IP at 66.35.93.163

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

kenrich.me does not appear to be pointing to your server:

root@localhost:~# ping kenrich.me
PING kenrich.me (184.168.221.27) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from ip-184-168-221-27.ip.secureserver.net (184.168.221.27): icmp_seq=1 ttl=54 time=21.9 ms
64 bytes from ip-184-168-221-27.ip.secureserver.net (184.168.221.27): icmp_seq=2 ttl=54 time=21.9 ms

Its pointing to 184.168.221.27.

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Hi Brian,

kenrich.me is a permanent redirect at GoDaddy. It points to indiegospel.net/ken-rich and that redirect works.

I assume that 184.168.221.27 must have something to do with how Go Daddy routes redirects???

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 01/27/15 09:44:14AM

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

I have confirmed 184.168.221.27 is where it points according to the DNS zone file at Go Daddy (see attached). That must be where they do redirects.

So, if I am understanding correctly, a standard redirect is not the correct starting point for this procedure?

To make this work then, I'm guessing I am supposed to change the nameservers to point to my server and let the Jamroom script "map" the domain? Just as if kenrich.me were being hosted on the server, which it is in a sense, because the profile is the hosting account. Am I finally getting it?

If that is correct, can you confirm?

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 01/26/15 02:49:28PM

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

You need to update DNS so your A record points to your Jamroom server - just as if you were going to host it there. Otherwise Jamroom has no way to respond to the domain request.

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Thanks Brian,

OK thanks - I know how to do that. I don't know why I was thinking that forwarding was the starting point, what you are saying makes complete sense.

In fact, I went ahead and switched nameservers last night, as I finally clued up. I'll test again today.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Hi Brian,

It's still not working but the symptoms have changed. When activated I see http://kenrich.me/_map=1603d6e5583c5c01e3e038210ddadfe9 when I go to indiegospel.net/ken-rich

Normally, I just change the nameservers to the server I'm hosting at and create an add on domain or subdomain. Then the DNS resolves and I don't have to play around with @ host.

Should I set @ host to point to the server IP (root) or the JR5 dedicated IP?

How will I know if DNS is resolved? Normally I know that when the website comes up. Your procedure says to get resolution before activation - so how does one check? A ping of kenrich.me doesn't connect to anything - should it before activation?

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

@paul
9 years ago
4,326 posts

I normally just point to the server IP, enable in JR then wait.
Sometimes after setting up it shows the default server page ("You have reached etc etc") instead of the correct JR profile. When that happens, I restart apache and it fixes things from then on.

--
Paul Asher - JR Developer and System Import Specialist

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Hi Paul,

Thanks for that. I'm going to test again later today.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Ken_Rich:
Should I set @ host to point to the server IP (root) or the JR5 dedicated IP?

It must point to your JR5 site - otherwise Jamroom will not see it.

Quote:
How will I know if DNS is resolved? Normally I know that when the website comes up. Your procedure says to get resolution before activation - so how does one check? A ping of kenrich.me doesn't connect to anything - should it before activation?

Yes - "ping kenrich.me" should return the same IP address your Jamroom 5 is running on.

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

@soaringeagle
9 years ago
3,304 posts

wow that was alotta reading and my brain hurts now

ive been using the module for well since 5 minutes after it was released (wanted to beta test it but they were too fast releasing it)
and ive had to re do it 5 times now

now it makes sense why

so lets assume i want to do this myself..without a network guy

please explain the "copy the file to a diferent directory" procedure
copy it where and reference it how

all the rest was just alotta reading to get that 1 lil clue
but if u can explain that ill be set and i think we can then put together a cpanel guide

--
soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

@soaringeagle
9 years ago
3,304 posts

my server admins are having a hard time following this rambling (im the king of ramble)discussion
last response was

Editing the config through WHM include editor is the best way to modify but are you including the correct path and where and how are you trying to include?

All of these files within WHM appear blank:
[root@server 0]# cd /usr/local/apache/conf/includes
[root@server includes]# ls
account_suspensions.conf post_virtualhost_2.conf pre_main_2.conf pre_virtualhost_2.conf
errordocument.conf post_virtualhost_global.conf pre_main_global.conf pre_virtualhost_global.conf
post_virtualhost_1.conf pre_main_1.conf pre_virtualhost_1.conf

You need to modify the correct file(s) with the correct include path. It does look as though the path you want to include may be correct but I don't see it any of these files include files within /usr/local/apache/conf/includes .

I see you have posted a response in the forum perhaps someone or several will be able to provide some helpful insight:
https://www.jamroom.net/the-jamroom-network/forum/using-jamroom/22470/profile-domain-module-procedure-not-recommended

Is it these files ("copy the file to a diferent directory") that you are at when wondering what and where to copy? Perhaps they are just suggesting to make backups of the files in another directory if so. Otherwise, please elaborate about what you are missing in this step.

This may be best for jamroom specialists to assist but please provide as much info as possible and we can attempt to further assist. We want to be sure where you are in the guide as well as to not overstep or overwrite anything:
https://www.jamroom.net/the-jamroom-network/documentation/modules/2239/profile-domains

--
soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

The whole server went down for an hour OVER THIS INSTALL.

When it came back my database cache was corrupted and I had a blank screen with an error showing all night. Please refer to https://www.jamroom.net/the-jamroom-network/forum/using-jamroom/23301/emergency-crashed-no-jr5-just-blank-screen-with-error#last

======================================
The datacenter guys are investigating their mod to the apache config, but I'm wondering if it's because of my settings at the registrar - here's why.

brian:

Ken_Rich:
Should I set @ host to point to the server IP (root) or the JR5 dedicated IP?

It must point to your JR5 site - otherwise Jamroom will not see it.

Yes - "ping kenrich.me" should return the same IP address your Jamroom 5 is running on.

Based on the above responses, I set @ host to my dedicated Jamroom IP. Yesterday I wanted to test again but a ping of kenrich.me still showed nothing. I found a place called mxtoolbox.com and ran their check. They came back with "Loop detected - we were referred back to 66.35.93.162" That IP happens to be the server IP (root). Also, the server crashed last night due to a "looping" problem (related to this install).

The JR5 IP is 66.35.93.163 which is where the @ host is pointed. One number different that the server IP which is 66.35.93.162.

So just to be crystal clear (and to eliminate registrar settings), can I ask the same question again. Should I set @ host to point to the (root) server IP (66.35.93.162) or the JR5 dedicated IP (66.35.93.163)?

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 01/29/15 05:43:20AM

@soaringeagle
9 years ago
3,304 posts

what are your exact dns settings
you should only need 1 dns setting an a record for @ pointing to the ip of jamroom
ic u have cnames redirects anything like that they need to be removed they are causing the looping
probably a redirect
your basicly calling the ip the server assigns the ip to the account domain
then the redirect redirects it back to itself
and it loops over and over and over..without end

start by ensuring no redirects are still active

remove any cnamesthat reference the profile
once these are verified propegated point the ip to the server and your good
untill the cnames and redirects are verified cleared out id remove the a record too to avoid looping then add it back only when your sure theres no cnames or redirects that can be followed

this maybe an unnecessary step but to avoid server crashes u want to be sure noone can access it from anywhere and cause a loop
so test propegation or wait 72 hours
72 hours is rarely nesacary but if you dont verify propegation then its a safety net

once its all clear add the a record
and then your good to go

--
soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Thanks for your input SE. I'm starting to think I wasn't supposed to do anything with the @ host afterall, so I'm not sure why I was given these instructions. Apparently, I just had to change nameservers to point to my host, not update the @ record in the DNS.

brian:
You need to update DNS so your A record points to your Jamroom server - just as if you were going to host it there. Otherwise Jamroom has no way to respond to the domain request.

brian:

Ken_Rich:
Should I set @ host to point to the server IP (root) or the JR5 dedicated IP?

It must point to your JR5 site - otherwise Jamroom will not see it.

When I change the nameservers to my host, the @ host setting is apparently no longer controlled from the registrar. I apparently had temporary access while the DNS was resolving. In fact, I see this message there now "The zone file is unavailable because the domain's set nameservers do not belong to this registrar."

Because of my interpretation (or misinterpretation) of Brian's instructions, I set the DNS Zone File @ host to my JR5 IP and perhaps that caused the loop?

So to be crystal clear, at the level of the registrar:

1) Is it necessary to manually edit the DNS zone file @ host setting to point to the JR5 IP?

2) Or, does one simply change the nameservers as per normal (and not mess with the @ host setting).

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 01/29/15 07:02:44AM

@soaringeagle
9 years ago
3,304 posts

this depends
are you running dns on the server do you mean changing the name servers to the nameservers of the server ..or the hosting company
2 is the domain set up with an account on the server

it really should not matter whos name seervers are used at all
all that matters is tha6t whatevername servers aee used has a dns zone set up with the a record pointing to the ip
no cnames or redirects pointing to the profile just an a record to the ip

otherwise a name servers a name servers a name server.. it doesnt matter what name servers u use as long asthat name servers got a properly set a record

all mine are done at the registrar since they dont have a server account
and dont need 1
all they needs the a record tellingthe name servers the ip

--
soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

@soaringeagle
9 years ago
3,304 posts

ken
check your private notes

but jr team
im still waitingon input on how to set this up

or ken can you explain how you configured the server to work.. not dns ill fix that for u how u got the includes etc to work

--
soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

My normal process is to change the nameservers to my host, and at the host create a domain or subdomain. Then the DNS resolves and there is no issue.

What I don't understand, is how it's supposed to resolve in this case, since there is no domain or subdomain created in my cpanel to match the domain. Yet Brian says I should be able to ping kenrich.me, and have it resolve, before I activate the module.

Until the module is activated, there is nothing for kenrich.me to "latch on" to, if you get where I am coming from.

Got to run - doctors appointment - thanks for your help.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

@soaringeagle
9 years ago
3,304 posts

it doesnt need to latch on to anything it just needs to have the domain point to the server ip
the server then handles the request
if it cant handle therequest..wich the module does then nothinghappens but it still resolves to the ip

once it resolves to the ip then your good
as long as no redirects or cnames are there

so
it doesnt matter what namke servers are used
if yiu switch the name servers toi the host and the host doesnt have the domain set up as an account then theresnothing to latch on to

what you need to knowis

the a record points to the host
the server uses thsat a record .. andthe include statement to interperate the request and send it on to the module wich forwards the request to the profile

thats not exactly how it works but i simplified it for you to get the concept

all you need to do..is on the registrar.or anywhere thats handeling the dns
point the domain to the ip in the a record
some require
the domain ip
some @ ip

--
soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Ken_Rich:
The whole server went down for an hour OVER THIS INSTALL.

Seriously Ken - I'm gonna sound like a broken record but you need competent sysadmins. Sorry that they are your friends but they don't know how to properly support you, and you WILL have more issues - I'm certain of it.

Quote:
So just to be crystal clear (and to eliminate registrar settings), can I ask the same question again. Should I set @ host to point to the (root) server IP (66.35.93.162) or the JR5 dedicated IP (66.35.93.163)?

Like I said above, it needs to point to your JAMROOM install - so if that is on 66.35.93.163, then that is where it MUST point. Otherwise how is Jamroom going to see the request if you've got the domain pointing to a different IP ?

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net
updated by @brian: 01/29/15 11:39:21AM

@soaringeagle
9 years ago
3,304 posts

brian and my question how can i get this to work without it overwriting
what was that part about copying the files

--
soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

soaringeagle:
brian and my question how can i get this to work without it overwriting
what was that part about copying the files

Overwriting what?

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

brian:
Seriously Ken - I'm gonna sound like a broken record but you need competent sysadmins. Sorry that they are your friends but they don't know how to properly support you, and you WILL have more issues - I'm certain of it.

Well I wouldn't assign any blame just yet, as it remains to be seen what caused the problem. My friend actually didn't do the config, it was the top tech at the datacenter who has worked with server configurations for years. In light of that fact, I don't see my friend's competency (or lack thereof) as being the issue.

Quote:
Like I said above, it needs to point to your JAMROOM install - so if that is on 66.35.93.163, then that is where it MUST point. Otherwise how is Jamroom going to see the request if you've got the domain pointing to a different IP ?

Well if that's the case, I had the @ host pointed correctly. Now all I see is - "The zone file is unavailable because the domain's set nameservers do not belong to this registrar."

Does this mean control has passed to the server and I must now get my host to set the a record to point to my domain's IP?

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

soaringeagle:
ken
check your private notes

but jr team
im still waitingon input on how to set this up

or ken can you explain how you configured the server to work.. not dns ill fix that for u how u got the includes etc to work

Hi SE,

I can't explain how the includes were done, because someone from the datacenter did it. However, once they finish investigating what went wrong, I'll get as much detail as I can.

Checked my private notes but I don't have access to the DNS settings anymore. All you can see there is a message and the normal controls are gone. "The zone file is unavailable because the domain's set nameservers do not belong to this registrar."

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 01/29/15 12:42:33PM

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Ken_Rich:
Well I wouldn't assign any blame just yet, as it remains to be seen what caused the problem. My friend actually didn't do the config, it was the top tech at the datacenter who has worked with server configurations for years. In light of that fact, I don't see my friend's competency (or lack thereof) as being the issue.

With your downtime being an hour I don't know if I would agree, but that's for you to decide

Quote:
Well if that's the case, I had the @ host pointed correctly. Now all I see is - "The zone file is unavailable because the domain's set nameservers do not belong to this registrar."

Does this mean control has passed to the server and I must now get my host to set the a record to point to my domain's IP?

yeah this means your DNS is messed up for the "kenrich.me" domain. You've set your nameservers to SOMEWHERE else than your registrar (i.e. Godaddy) - you need configure your DNS at that SOMEWHERE else (i.e. set the A record to point to your Jamroom).

Contact your hosting provider about this and they can help (as they probably are running the active Name servers) - it's not Jamroom related.

Thanks!

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

@soaringeagle
9 years ago
3,304 posts

brian:

soaringeagle:
brian and my question how can i get this to work without it overwriting
what was that part about copying the files

Overwriting what?

cpanel keeps overwriting the cvonf files so i have haqd to redo it 5 times

--
soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Check out the docs:

https://www.jamroom.net/the-jamroom-network/documentation/modules/2239/profile-domains#configure-apache-for-cpanel-whm-users

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Data Center said:

Quote: The problem was indeed due to apache include for indiegospel.net which was configured in one of your previous tickets, but someone removed the file that was being included and apache was than failing to start due to error in trying to load a non existing file.

File that was deleted is:

/home/indiegospel/public_html/data/media/0/0/apache_server_alias_include.conf

They need to make sure that this file exists, if it does not apache will not be able to restart. I've now created the file again (empty) to make sure that it is there and that apache is able to start and restart properly.

Well no one deleted it, the module itself deletes it when you deactivate the domain mapping. I was watching the folder myself and saw it disappear after we deactivated. It writes it back when activated - witnessed that too, but had to deactivate again when the second test failed.

I had no choice but to to deactivate, since no one could reach my profile or files. So what is the way forward now?

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 01/29/15 01:22:17PM

@soaringeagle
9 years ago
3,304 posts

apache should at most delete the include link to it not any files within the jamroom site

--
soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

@soaringeagle
9 years ago
3,304 posts

brian:
Check out the docs:

https://www.jamroom.net/the-jamroom-network/documentation/modules/2239/profile-domains#configure-apache-for-cpanel-whm-users

i did
problem is trying to set it up in whm you cant add the include to any of the 3 options in the includes editor without an error
and i assume you want post vhosts/
?
i tried following the directions for single domain the directories didnt exist i created them and the files but still nothing

--
soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

@soaringeagle
9 years ago
3,304 posts

oh dam its working now

no idea how

--
soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

soaringeagle:
apache should at most delete the include link to it not any files within the jamroom site

Apache doesn't delete it, the Jamroom module does.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

@soaringeagle
9 years ago
3,304 posts

if u delete or deactivate the module it might yea i dont see why that would cause apache not to boot

heres how u can fix this in 2 minutes flat
step 1 at registrar change name servers use default
it will take a minute or 2 before u have access to the dns
once u do create an a record putr in the jamroom ip
save
if godaddy is the registrar call them for everything but vps/dedicated servers they got awesome support for servers ..it sux bad (except shared)

--
soaringeagle
head dreadhead at dreadlocks site
glider pilot student and member/volunteer coordinator with freedoms wings international soaring for people with disabilities

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

Once you include the file in your apache config, apparently it needs it to boot. It ends up repeatedly trying to load a non existing file, if the Jamroom module deletes it (which it does on deactivate).

Got to run - I'll look into the DNS thing with you - I've never done it that way.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 01/29/15 01:53:39PM

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Ken_Rich:
Once you include the file in your apache config, apparently it needs it to boot. It ends up repeatedly trying to load a non existing file, if the Jamroom module deletes it (which it does on deactivate).

Got to run - I'll look into the DNS thing with you - I've never done it that way.

It shouldn't do that - it should just complain into the web server's error_log. I will check it out though.

Thanks!

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

I just pushed out a small update to the module (version 1.0.1) that now will leave "placeholder" files in place instead of deleting them.

Also - update your Apache conf to use "IncludeOptional" instead of "Include":

https://www.jamroom.net/the-jamroom-network/documentation/modules/2239/profile-domains#configure-apache-to-include-the-profile-domains-config

Let me know if that helps.

Thanks!

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

brian:

Ken_Rich:
Once you include the file in your apache config, apparently it needs it to boot. It ends up repeatedly trying to load a non existing file, if the Jamroom module deletes it (which it does on deactivate).

It shouldn't do that - it should just complain into the web server's error_log. I will check it out though. Thanks!

Yes but if you recall it was deleting it, I actually reported that back on the 26th. I guess it never dawned on me (or any of us) that it would cause this issue.

brian:

Ken_Rich:
I can verify that /home/indiegospel/public_html/data/media/0/0/apache_server_alias_include.conf is written when the domain is active and this is the value - ServerAlias kenrich.me
When I deactivate the module, that config file disappears from data/media/0/0

This sounds correct....

Hindsight's 20/20. The important thing is that it's sorted now. I think there should be no problem with the install now, and it's going to be a great addition to the premium services my network offers.

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 01/30/15 04:55:54AM

Ken Rich
@ken-rich
9 years ago
926 posts

It's working now - hoorah.

http://kenrich.me is now mapped to my profile pages and I have a working example for my clients.

1) Now that the module no longer deletes the file needed for the apache include, and the include is also made optional, I see ZERO chance of this crashing the server again.

2) My DNS issues were being caused by changing the nameservers to my host (as per normal procedure). When I switched to Go Daddy's default nameservers, and then manually changed the @ host to my site's dedicated IP, my domain pinged there almost immediately.

All's well that ends well - thanks for your patience and time on this...

--

Ken Rich
indiegospel.net

updated by @ken-rich: 01/30/15 12:55:14PM

@brian
9 years ago
10,148 posts

Awesome - glad this is all worked out now.

Thanks!

--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

solved Profile Domain Module - Procedure not Recommended?