solved Jamroom needs simpler css

The css is too confusing , too many different areas , there should be one area where you change all the text colors sizes , one for the all background colors , one area for all buttons and so on ...

the end user may not want to learn css and only want to change the background color of the profile area this current version is a nightmare trying to find where things at and there is no direction where to change what

i.e. the profile BG color is in a different area from the other BG colors...
.... now if I give you the formula in the attached files without you knowing electronics would you know what I am designing ?

Please keep in mind the end user may not want to study codes or learn the language ... i.e. change BG colors, change profile BG color , instead of "core_html_css" for one set of color then have to navigate away from that area to go and figure out where to go change the next set of BG colors wish is a waste of time and is confusing...

The css is like the link below to some one who don't want to know html, and just wants to change BG color ,i.e. click here for all BG colors

this is what you gave to us who may not wanna learn html

http://www.sayedsaad.com/fundmental/21_TURNS%20AND%20VOLTAGE%20RATIOS%20%20.htm


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.
updated by @izhmel: 06/13/14 11:25:39AM

Here is an example of what I am talking about all this is good for someone who wants to learn html , but someone who is a artist or musicians don't want to study all that just to add a facebook (or other) feed onto users profiles via the Form Designer - See more .

they want "add a facebook (or other) feed onto users profiles click here"

this is like the days of doss . copy c:\bla bla c:\blu blu. delete c:\bla bla,copy c:*.* d:\bla bla

I thank Bill Gates for windows and I hope you get the picture ...

https://www.jamroom.net/the-jamroom-network/documentation/howto/1480/howto-add-a-facebook-or-other-feed-onto-users-profiles-via-the-form-designer


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.

Here is a next example of a confusing css ,after wasting time figuring where to change some of the colors I have to now go and figure out where to change the colars for "site news text" all text colors needs to be in one area . i.e. change site news text, change profile text, change header text, change footer text all color needs to be on one page for the end users .

http://dubmusic.com/ where do I change the "site news text color" ?


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.

So right click on the text you want to change the color of, that will tell you that it uses the class "normal"

Then go to your skin styles, select core_text from the select menu, then change the font color for "Normal"

It's incredible that you find this stuff so hard.


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updated by @ultrajam: 05/11/14 06:38:02AM

That answer you gave is my point , the end user don't wanna learn the language of what class "normal is" then go to the core_text the learn the language there and how would they know to go to "core_text"

what you said in your answer to an artist or musician or some one using JR for the first time is like the formula in the attached files"..

or Primary 120 0 120 V ,secondary 600 V center tap 1.2 A RC = 1 ma with a 1 1 H choke using 1000 uf 800V, TC = 5 seconds drain time ...


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.
updated by @izhmel: 05/11/14 08:06:55AM

The font-color is #CCC , but the text is still black ...

you can log in and see for your self and it is not changing


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.
updated by @izhmel: 05/11/14 07:51:41AM

You mean this in the screenshot? It clearly shows that the text is #ccc.

Do you need to empty your browser cache?


--
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updated by @ultrajam: 05/11/14 08:05:54AM

SteveX thanks for fixing it , but you keep strengthening my point , I work with allot of artist and musicians and they don't wanna learn codes , that's you guys specialty .

Even tho I am an electronics engineer @ the design level/recording engineer / record producer. I don't wanna study html and learn the language..

we want a dummy proof css i.e. change site news text and colors click here


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.

Steve x one more fact than makes my point " SCIENTIST DUBWIZE PLUGINS Dub Fx" is in black and is in a different css to change the color from black , I now have to go study where that text is just to change it ? what css fixes that ?


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.
updated by @izhmel: 05/11/14 08:22:52AM

Then don't change anything and be happy with it. Jamroom has A LOT of different areas and functionality, many of them requiring their own CSS classes and IDs. If you want to customize these, then you will need to understand it.

This is like saying I want to produce my own mixes, but I don't want to be bothered to learn how to mix or understand the board.

Just leave things as they are and be OK with it, or take the time to go through the different CSS sections and modify it to suit your needs.


--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Brian I was expecting this kind of answer from you you did not surprise me with that
answer.

So if an artist don't like what the current version is , JR team wont consider a css for dummy's because artist and musicians are less likely to want to study css ,and JR has no plans or recognize clients feedback and how to improve JR ???

The people who design the recording gears listen to other engineers feedback so they can improve the gear . they don't say " if you don't like our console use it the way it is or use some thing else" , or imagine Micro Soft saying if you don't like doss and love using a mouse buy an Apple computer.

Are you saying Jr have no plans to make the css dummy proof for artist and musicians who wants to be rock stars and don't wanna know about codes , they only wants to know where the next gig is with the next reggae hoe


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.
updated by @izhmel: 05/11/14 09:11:03AM

I didn't fix it. You must be seeing a cached version of your page - could be that you have cacheing turned on in your jamroom, or it could be your browser cache.

The css in jr5 is pretty much for dummies, you don't need to see any code. If it were any simpler you'd be losing features.

Imagine this situation:
"No we can't have any bass on the record man, the engineer doesn't understand it, so we can't use it."
That's what you are asking for - no bass on the record man.


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I thought that's what they said with windows 8?


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The current way it works is the "dummy proof" version. The "real" way is to edit the CSS files directly. If you simply use the "style" tab to make your changes, it really doesn't get any easier than that:

1) You don't need to know color codes - just click the color to pop up a color selector
2) you don't need to know what values are correct for a section - the drop down selects show you your choices.

The only thing easier would be to get someone else to do it for you - if you find the current setup too confusing, then you might consider having someone help you out. I can't think of a way to make it simpler - any simpler and it's just not going to work.


--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Steve X here is my point where do I change the color for the BG gray boxes under the bio section http://dubmusic.com/arcade-fire-remixed-by-the-scientist/audio

Can you build an instruction page where these css are . i.e. to change main BG color go to core_html.css


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.

I agree it is easy to change the colors when you knows what css to edit . if there was a map to tell the dummy's where to edit what they want to edit, is what my point is ..

i.e. where do I change the color for the text color where the stars are ? http://dubmusic.com/juliette-commagere/audio


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.

This is something already built into your browser. Firefox does it really well with their developer tools, you right click on the element you want to change and you will see the class name. You can even edit the css in the browser to check that what you are changing will have the right final effect. If you are changing the colors of your headings and backgrounds you NEED to use this tool.


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Artist and musicians will see this "!@#$%^&*(_)&*(**&*xjhdfgxdhvxfhvjgbwe4856w48576723542q389&&(&&*(^^(&^H" they wont understand

and the tool you mentioned dose not say what css to edit


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.
updated by @izhmel: 05/11/14 11:56:09AM

There are plenty of artists and musicians around here in the Jamroom forum. Almost all of them are perfectly capable, they do understand, and they don't have the difficulties that you have.

Brian is right, you should get someone to do this for you. Anyone would have an easier time of it than you are having, and you could get back to doing something you enjoy and are good at - your music is great! It must be terrible spending years in a state of perpetual confusion, technically challenged at every turn, never making any progress.

I can't imagine Tubbys saying "you just hang in there on that console kid, you'll get the hang of it someday" Upstart kids show some aptitude, some sense. And its pretty much the same for us middle aged 60s babies and building websites: some can, some can't.


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I had other professional web developers with C++ and other programing skills told me the css is confusing and could be easier , If I was to leave my electronics and other things I am doing to study html I could design a css that works the way I described it, but that is not my thing.

I remember in the 1980's when I was talking about allot of what you see in the recording industry today allot of people think I was smoking too much weed , now the all see what I am talking about

as usual I had the stubbornness before with other topics and you all will come around to what I am saying.

Why there is no instruction any where that shows what css changes what wish is what the issue is the css is easy once you know what css changes what... i.e. core_html.css is where to change the main BG color ?


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.
updated by @izhmel: 05/11/14 02:12:30PM

A LOT not ALLOT. CSS requires particular attention to syntax.

The next release of the core will have a couple tweaks in it in the Style editor to help here a little bit:

- the CSS selector name will now appear as the sublabel so you can see the actual CSS rule name
- there's a new "selector search" which will allow you to search for a specific CSS selector

Both of these should help when you are using Firebug to inspect the CSS and want to match up the selector in the style editor.

This will be in jrCore 5.1.42 which should be released shortly.

Hope this helps!


--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Thanks Brian , I know you would eventually get it . I think you meant June 1 2014


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.
updated by @izhmel: 05/12/14 10:22:46AM

No problem - just note however that this does not change how the CSS styling works, nor does it simplify the CSS - but hopefully it helps you find what you are looking for quicker.


--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

The css is easy once you knows the area where to change what i.e. core_html.css for the BG colors .

The issues is there is no map that tells what changes what i.e. what changes the 2 gray boxes under the bio section "videos: 1 audio tracks: 1 " ? http://dubmusic.com/lady-gaga-beyonce-remixed-by-the-scientist/audio


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.
updated by @izhmel: 05/12/14 10:33:45AM

What does Firebug show you?


--
Brian Johnson
Founder and Lead Developer - Jamroom
https://www.jamroom.net

Brian you still thinking like a programer , think like a rock star that wants to go back to his room and get laid , I never used firebug and the rock stars ant gonna know how to use firebug.

More dummy proof Brian if there was a link only visible in admin mode to the .css file of what you want would be ideal, or some chart/page with a link to what the dummy wants to edit. i.e.

Welcome to Jamroom Edit CSS navigation page

1 "Edit header" then when you click the link it takes you to http://dubmusic.com/core/skin_admin/style/skin=jrNova/file=core_header.css

2 .Edit BG color = http://dubmusic.com/core/skin_admin/style/skin=jrNova/file=core_html.css

3. Edit Footer = http://dubmusic.com/core/skin_admin/style/skin=jrNova/file=core_footer.css ....

4. Edit the Form Help Drop Right
Element Left
Element Right
Form Help Drop Left

http://dubmusic.com/core/skin_admin/style/skin=jrNova/file=core_form_layout.css

The css it self is dummy proof,the issue is the dummy's don't know they have to go to "core_html.css" to edit the BG color, or to edit the Form Help Drop Right they needs to go to http://dubmusic.com/core/skin_admin/style/skin=jrNova/file=core_form_layout.css

I hope you see what the issue is ..

Thanks


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.
updated by @izhmel: 05/12/14 08:45:40PM

Brian a dummy wont know what Element Left,Element Right is that's a programers talk , that's why a graphical chart/page would be good with the links to the area you want to edit ..

What I just showed you took a few minutes so I know it is possible an to only make those links be visible only in admin mode i.e. "Edit header link" in the center of the header only visible in admin mode .

all you have to do is to put the links in the header and footer tpl files only visible to admin "Edit header , Edit Footer" and for the BG some where center right or left of the page..

I would do it but every time there is an update I would lose the modifications..


Could you please try it in the "Edit header , Edit Footer" with links in header and footer .tpl files and make a core update so we can try it ?


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.
updated by @izhmel: 05/12/14 09:09:07PM

like what CSS edit these text and the gray icon for "audio tracks: 15" ?

http://dubmusic.com/the-scientist-in-a-world-of-dub/audio

the links to the CSS could be beside "the gray icon for audio tracks: 15" only visible to admin


Relay Brian, how hard is that or I am smoking too much Kush ?


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.
updated by @izhmel: 05/12/14 09:23:29PM

core_site.css in the skin style manager
Look for your block classes

The amount of time you have spent on these threads mate you could have mastered firebug
it is the best TOOL on the net to find out what you need to edit
And it is as simple as turning on your mixing desk.
You don't have to learn everything about it

The easiest way is to,
install it
open up the page in question in firefox
Click the little bug icon in your tool bar up top
click the select tool which looks like a rectangle box
hover over the part you want to change
click on it
and it will show you exactly what class you are using in the right hand column of the html tab
DON'T click the css tab
just open it and then click the select button

It is the simplest way to work out what class you need to look for
Then go back into your styles section in your skin in acp
click in the field marked, selector search
post in for example:- block
and it will take you to the right section
easy, done!

I don't know anyone that would edit a skin or try to change it without doing any research at all
This site has many classes and id's and I myself applaud the staff for the way they have made it easier
I don't know of anyone else that has put as much effort into creating a site css editor for dummies that works well

Maybe some more instructions are needed for people that won't listen to great advice ( firebug )
This tool will pinpoint exactly what you want and you can actually edit your site in real time through it ( just change what you want ) to find the best colors instead of guessing.

I'm sorry izhmel for saying this, but it works fine the way it is, you just need to learn a TINY little bit more which will save you thousands of hours head scratching ( firebug )

I did say firebug didn't I?
Anyway FIREBUG


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MAD ,you don't get it ,this sounds like crap listen to how much steps you have to take verses what I said , do you under stand Artist don't wanna learn fire bug wish is a new tool they have to learn,they would have to learn all the steps you mentioned verses

Edit BG color click here http://dubmusic.com/core/skin_admin/style/skin=jrNova/file=core_html.css
wish takes you directly to the area you wanna edit . How are they gonna know about firebug and understand the language about class and the stuff you talked about ?


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.

They would read forums and learn.
Aren't they going to have to learn to access the ACP and then find the skin editor then open the section they want?
Thats more work than what I explained.
I tried to explain it simply which took longer
I really don't give a flying f#$% what you think as most people don't have an issue with this ( or none are stepping forward )
I just edited the page you linked above LIVE in firebug in3 minutes flat to change the look of it
See attached
If you weren't so stubborn and at least used firebug ONCE you would see its not just a tool for web designers/ developers etc
It actually helps people like you instead of making things harder
rant over but I feel you're being way over the top as you are talking about rock stars building there own site.
Thats like saying to a web designer to go play guitar. Whats he gotta do first? Learn it ....duh
Except this is so much simpler


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updated by @madc: 05/13/14 06:33:58AM

Here is an example that don't need fire bug and all the steps you talked about that waste time and leaves more room for errors . you could even add bullets to target specific areas,and by the way the C ++ programer who first mentioned the css could be easier is a top level guitarist who plaid on "The Bitch Shot the Sheriff " http://dubmusic.com/karen-o-remixed-by-the-scientist/audio/albums/she-shot-the-sheriff

Welcome to Jamroom Edit CSS navigation page the easier way to edit your CSS for Jamroom you don't even need fire bug.
http://dubmusic.com/the-scientist/page/28/welcome-to-jamroom-edit-css-navigation-page


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.
updated by @izhmel: 05/13/14 07:02:03AM

Forget about the bass, I got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell.


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¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Education, learning resources, TEL, AR/VR/MR, CC licensed content, panoramas, interactive narrative, sectional modules (like jrDocs), lunch at Uni of Bristol. Get in touch if you share my current interests or can suggest better :)

I hope you realise if every class had a link to a specific section like on your page that area would be huge?
The realistic way is to find everything that uses say .block or .block a and change them site wide.

What you are asking would have to be specific to each item.
So if you want to change the block anchor tag it's not going to just be in one area.
Where it would work in one area that you want it would probably look bad in other areas
Thats why it is non specific and global

If you want to get specific, you would need to clone your skin and edit the css files directly.
What you are implying as i said would be great and I am sure we would all like that
But theoretically impossible due to JR having to create classes and ID's for every area on any site.
I hope you can see this. If they did the four you wanted then more would come etc etc and it would be never ending and
a skin makers nightmare.

The hierarchy of css allows you the flexibility of having child selectors etc
like .myclass span which allows you to pick a certain css class and anything inside a span tag within that class will use a different one then the rest of the site. So depending on which template you are using this could and would be such a broad range so the possibilities are endless.

If you are only talking about those 4 then that could be done. But anymore would become a logistical nightmare.

I understood what you were saying from the start but realistically it may be able to be done in 30 years time easy and efficiently ( Your reference to the 80's ) but now although not impossible, it is implausible .

PS I have been playing guitar for over 40 years mate so that aint gonna work with me lol



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updated by @madc: 05/13/14 07:07:14AM

MAD© I am use to people telling me I am a mad man because I have a mind that can look in the future .. The moving faders you see on recording consoles and the new kind of mixing desk you see I spoke about those back in the 70's before the XT computers, all documented. When I started my career as a recording engineer /electronics engineer all the other engineer said it was mission impossible and I was smoking too much weed , now they all choking on there words.


--
The Scientist
dubmusic.com
Thanks for any assistance.

Well keep that thought up izhmel but as my previous post said, if you could ever understand cascading style sheets you would see that it's not so much the " wysiwyg " for the style editor thats the problemit is in fact the amount of code involved I would say.

As I said, Maybe down the track , but can't see it happening soon.
Until you know what it takes to make such a site work as JR and how many edits it would take to do what you are saying,
Then you would understand how hard what you are asking is to do.

If you want any help at your site I am willing to offer what I can.
But if I had you in google video chat with a screencast for 10 minutes you would see how easy what I am saying is


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